Today I was arroused from a nap with the ringing of the door bell. I was enjoying a leisurely afternoon slumber on Banana's parent's front room couch. Banana's mother answered the door, and within 3 words I knew the "visitors" were Mormon missionaries. The words were "Hello, I'm Elder Anderson...." The "elder" is a dead give away. Banana's mother invited them in, and they began to ask her questions. During this introductory period, she metioned I am a seminary student. I was still laying on the couch, listening, and I began praying for these terribly misguided young men. Banana's mother asked if I would like to come and talk with them, and I replied "not particularly". This was because I was in the middle of prayer, praying that these two young men would come to see how corrupt their Mormon cult is, and how misguided their religion is. They continued to ask Banana's mother questions, and then Banana became engaged and entered into the discussion. They moved from the entry way of the house into the kitchen area, where I could still hear quite clearly all that was going on. Banana was doing a pretty good job of challenging their claims, and even came up with the argument about the closing of Scripture with the end of the book of Revelation. They kept trying to use John 10:16 as the foundation of their arguement, and Banana held her own against it. It was about this point I finished my prayer against and for these two young men, and I decided to get off the couch and enter the kitchen and join into the discussion. For the next hour+, I engaged these two men, with Banana contributing as well, challenging them in their beliefs, and challenging them to re-examine their beliefs. I explained to them how Christians DO NOT consider them Christians. They did not appreciate this, and I think they were not fully aware of this, as it caught them off guard. I challenged them on works righteousness. I challenged them on baptism and baptism of the dead. I challenged them on KNOWING that you are saved. I challenged them to examine the original Greek of the New Testament and to examine how their church perverts it to suit it's own needs. I explained to them how they are the same as the Jehova's Witnesses, and the Cult Jim Jones led (The People's Temple). I challenged the to rexamine their faith on a number of levels, but I am uncertain how successful I was. I certainly made them very defensive, and at times left them with nothing to fall back on but their canned responses. I explained to them what Cognitive Dissonence is, and challenged them to open the Bible (I suggested they get an ESV or NASB) with their Book of Morman, along with some apologetics materials (
James White's Alpha Omega ministry is a good start, see below) and to begin to examine their belief structure. Banana thinks I caused them some cognitive dissonence in at least one of the two missionaries. I told them at worst, from their point of view, they will become more familiar with Christian apologetics against the Mormon church, and they will grow deeper in their Mormon faith. I told them the best case scenereo, from my point of view, is that they will see the light, come out of the darkness of the Mormon church, and enter into a relationship with Christ where they CAN know they are saved. I told them I would be praying for them, and had already prayed for them. I expressed that I had prayed that they would only find stoney soil for their false religion. So I don't know if there is a black listing of houses that Mormon missionaries no longer go to, but if there is, Banana's parents house might now be on that list. I don't think they had a very good end to their day.
Know of any good Mormon or Jehova's Witness apologetics tools? Leave a list in the comments if you have the time.
______________________________
Christian Grace vs Mormon Grace A Comparison of the Gospel of Grace
The
Christian Gospel |
The
Mormon Gospel |
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten
Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John
3:16) And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more
grace. (Romans 11:6) |
Grace consists of God's gift to His children wherein He
gave His Only Begotten Son that whosoever would believe in Him and comply with His laws
and ordinances would have everlasting life. (Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson,
pp. 353-354). |
Moreover the law entered, that the offence might abound.
But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound (Romans 5:20). Therefore it is of
faith, that it might be by grace (Romans 4:16). |
Grace is granted to men proportionately as they conform to
the standards of personal righteousness that are part of the gospel plan. (Bruce R.
McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 339). |
For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of
yourselves: it is the gift of God: not of works, lest any man should boast.
For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath
before ordained that we should walk in them. (Ephesians 2:8-10). |
Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny
yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and
love God with all your might, mind, and strength, then is his grace sufficient for
you (Moroni 10:32, Book of Mormon) |
Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption
that is in Christ Jesus (Romans 3:24). Not by works of righteousness which we have
done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing
of the Holy Ghost. (Titus 3:5) |
As with all other doctrines of salvation, justification is
available because of the atoning sacrifice of Christ, but it becomes operative in the
life of an individual only on conditions of personal righteousness
(McConkie, Mormon
Doctrine, p. 408). |
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus,
and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be
saved. (Romans 10:9) |
Certain saved-by-grace-alone fanatics flatter their
followers into believing they can be saved through no act other than confessing Christ
with their lips (McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 287). |
The truth of the gospel is that God saves men freely and by His grace alone.
Adding to God's grace violates God's intention and places one under the curse of
God (Galatians 1:8-10, 5:2-4). Despite how often Mormons speak of the
gospel, they have been given a false gospel that cannot save.
7 comments:
Hi, I found your site on Live a Revolution's blog. I just wanted to let you know I really appreciated that you took the time to write what many of us feel. I have never really found the right words to use when they show up here. I usually recieve the Jehovah's Witness' at my house and I try very hard to pray and talk at the same time. I pray for them and I pray for words to use to tell them they are not SAVED. Anyway, I just wanted to say Thanks for sharing what you've found so far. I know it will be useful to me.
Hey Chris, I'm back as you probably know.
I'm glad to hear you had a good confrontation with the mormons. My dentist this past year was a mormon and a nice guy. He knew I was a seminary student and we talked some about religion, but it wasn't confrontational.
I personally think it'd be a good thing for Christians to vote strategically in Ukraine to undermine the Mormon Church's economic/political base there and to boycott products who have Mormons owning significant shares of stock and contributing to their missionary efforts.
I think it would also help if we just got rid of the income-tax deductions for religious donations, since it gives the wealthy more say-so than they need in churches and helps them to support the plethora of cults like in California.
I was told that the Purpose-Driven Life/Church by Rick Warren pretty much borrows straight a lot of Jungian psychology and commits the pelagian heresy. Do you agree with that assessment?
cheers,
dlw
Praynlady,
welcome to my corner of the web. I just pointed to a single location of a few Mormon apologetics tools. I think it is worth our time as American Christians to be well versed on this matter (as well as Jehova's Witness apologetics). There was more in our conversation yesterday, but I covered a large portion of the key points. I asked them some probing questions, like "How many generations are your families Mormon?" and their response was that both families were just one generation back, and before that the one family was Catholic and the other Methodist, both families from Minnesota (though both young men were from SLC, Utah).
We need to be prepared to represent ourselves and our faith well when these cults come knocking on our doors.
The Mormon own a lot of things people don't realize, so they accidently, and indirectly support the LDS church. I think it's worth being educated in that area and being selective when possible.
As far as Rick Warren, yes I have heard both criticisms (Jungian psychology and Pelagian heresy), and generally they come from the Fundamentalist camp(s). I have been critical of Warren, but I don't know if I would go as a far as to lumping him in with the Pelagians, though I do see hits of Jungian. I don't know if this is intentional on Warren's part. The thing that bothers me personally the most is his poor hermeutics/use of Scripture. I'll suggest the following reviews as a starting point (I've used this list previously in a dialog with a friend of my fiancee):
(Taken from Tim Challies review of PDL http://www.dietofbookworms.com/title.php?id=145 )
Bible Use
We have already seen how the author has used multiple translations as well as his justification for doing so. Of even greater concern is his carelessness in his use of the Bible. He continually removes Scripture passages from their proper context in order to make them suit his purposes. He carelessly applies promises to the reader that clearly do not apply. He also distorts or changes the meanings of certain passages to make them say what he wants them to say.
First we will examine promises Warren says apply to all Christians. One clear example of this is Jeremiah 29:11 which he uses multiple times in the book. On page 31 we read “Wonderful changes are going to happen in your life as you begin to live it on purpose. God says “I know what I am planning for you…’I have good plans for you, not plans to hurt you. I will give you hope and a good future’.” When read in context we see that this verse is not written to apply to all Christians. It is a promise given specifically to the Israelite exiles. By Warren’s logic Jeremiah 44:27 should also apply to all Christians. It reads, “I am watching over them for harm and not for good, and all the men of Judah who are in the land of Egypt will meet their end by the word and by famine until they are completely gone.” A pastor once told me “that verse wouldn’t sell as many plaques at the Christian book stores.”
A second example is Isaiah 44:2. This is used in the heading of the second chapter and is rendered “I am your Creator. You were in my care even before you were born.” The author chooses to quote only the first part of the verse. The second part, we see, goes directly against what he wants to say. It reads “Do not fear, O Jacob My servant; And you Jeshurun whom I have chosen.” When viewed in the proper context we see that this verse applies only to a specific group (which is, once again, the Israelites).
There are some passages where Warren uses the Bible extremely carelessly. The clearest example of this is in chapter 10 where he discusses the blessing of surrendering to God. As support he quotes Job 22:21 as saying “Stop quarreling with God. If you agree with him, you will have peace at last, and things will go well for you.” When we look at the larger context of this passage we see that these are the words of Eliphaz, one of Job’s infamous friends. We see that Eliphaz is giving Job poor advice which God later condemns. Warren knows better than this!
Thomas Jefferson once said “The moment a person forms a theory his imagination sees in every object only the traits which favor that theory.” The author seems to fall into a trap where he sees teachings about purpose in parts of the Bible that simply are not about purpose. For example, on page 30 he talks about the hopelessness of a life lived without purpose. In discussing this under the heading of “the benefits of purpose-driven living” he quotes the book of Job where Job says “My life drags by – day after hopeless day.” Of course familiarity with the book of Job will show that to say Job was bemoaning lack of purpose is ridiculous. A man who has had everything he owned and everyone he loved taken from him and is covered in sores is not likely to be upset by a lack of purpose in his life. In the same chapter the author quotes Genesis 4:12 which says of Cain “You will be a restless wanderer on the earth.” Again, this is made to sound like it has something to do with purpose. And again, this is a ridiculous assertion.
There are at least fifty similar examples where the author uses Scripture outside of its context or assigns a foreign meaning. When Scripture is not used in the way God intends, this sort of inconsistency is inevitable.
The Diet of Bookworms web site is a good place to find reviews if you want something beyond the mindless blurbs on Amazon.com
I think that when we become careless with Scripture many bad things follow. I think it is important enough that people at least be aware of Warren's poor treatment, so that they can actually get the full power of the Scripture, as it is the Scripture that is powerful, not anything penned by Rick Warren. Rick himself would tell you the same thing. I saw Rick speak on Thursday of last week, and he said this very thing in fact.
http://www.challies.com/archives/000124.php Tim Challies full review
http://www.twincityfellowship.com/cic/articles/issue80.htm Review by Pastor Bob DeWaay of Twin Cities Fellowship (Minneapolis)
http://www.gty.org/bible_faqs/bible_content.php?qa=busenitz_purposedriven.html Grace to You staff review (John McArthur's Church)
(from GTY review)
Our biggest concern with The Purpose-Driven® Life is that, although it frequently references the Bible, it often does so inaccurately. To be sure, Warren’s initial claim sounds great: “The best way to explain God’s purpose for your life is to allow the Scripture to speak for itself, so in this book the Bible is quoted extensively” (p. 11). Further examination, however, reveals that The Purpose-Driven® Life repeatedly quotes the Bible in an overly casual way.
With no less than 15 different Bible translations and paraphrases, Warren offers proof-texts for much of his discussion, usually without any exegetical or contextual support. The author explains his reasons for this on page 325, contending that his “model for this is Jesus and how he and the apostles quoted the Old Testament. They often just quoted a phrase to make a point.” Unfortunately, this thinking (which is debatable to begin with) allows Warren to pull passages completely out of context and apply them however he sees fit (using whatever loose paraphrase seems to agree with his argument). But, unlike Jesus and the apostles, Warren is not inspired by the Holy Spirit—meaning he does not possess the authority to use God’s Word however he pleases.
Several examples will suffice (although numerous instances could be given):
On page 19, Warren cites Matthew 16:25 from The Message paraphrase (“Self-help is no help at all. Self-sacrifice is the way, my way, to finding yourself, your true self”) to argue that, in order to be successful in life, you need more than self-help advice. Yet, a more literal translation of Matthew 16:25 quickly evidences that Christ is not talking about self-help advice in this context, but rather about the essential nature of the saving gospel (ESV: “For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it”). By not giving the context of the verse, and by using a very loose paraphrase, Warren changes the whole thrust of Jesus’ statement.
On page 139, in speaking about fellowship in the church, Warren states, “God has made an incredible promise about small groups of believers: ‘For where two or three have gathered together in My name, I am there in their midst [Matt. 18:20].’” Yet, Matthew 18:20, in its context, has nothing to do with small-group fellowship in the church, but rather with the church’s authority in disciplining its members.
On page 165, the author encourages his readers not to spread or listen to gossip. He then says, “If you listen to gossip, God says you are a troublemaker. ‘Troublemakers listen to troublemakers’ [Prov. 17:4]. ‘These are the ones who split churches, thinking only of themselves’ [Jude 1:16].” Yet Proverbs 17:4 does not directly mention gossip, and Jude 1:16 is not speaking of gossipers at all, but rather false teachers (regarding their grumbling, pride, and flattery). While the point may be valid (that gossip is wrong), it cannot be honestly supported by arbitrarily combining Proverbs 17:4 with Jude 1:16. By handling those verses the way that he does (especially in the case of Jude 1:16), Warren fails to bring out the true meaning of the text.
In other places, the author applies Old Testament passages directly to New Testament believers without any explanation of the original context or intended meaning. For example, Warren cites Jeremiah 29:11 when he says: “If you have felt hopeless hold on! Wonderful changes are going to happen in your life as you begin to live on purpose. God says, ‘I know what I am planning for you… ‘I have good plans for you, not plans to hurt you. I will give you a hope and a good future’” (p. 31). The fact that this prophecy is actually given to Old Testament Israel with regards to the Babylonian Captivity is silently overlooked.
It doesn’t take long to realize that this type of interpretive irresponsibility is destined for disaster. While the five life purposes that Rick Warren explores in The Purpose-Driven® Life are all biblical concepts, he does not always use the right texts to support his conclusions. Instead, he routinely picks and chooses whatever verse (or part of a verse) he wants, from whatever translation or paraphrase he think best makes his point. Doing so sets a dangerous example—implying to his readers that this type of Bible interpretation (where accuracy and context seem to be ignored) is perfectly acceptable.
Even the premise of the book is based on a faulty interpretation of Scripture. Warren insists that a 40-day strategy is the best, most biblical way to instill significant spiritual change. He says, “The Bible is clear that God considers 40 days a spiritually significant time period. Whenever God wanted to prepare someone for his purposes, he took 40 days” (p. 9—emphasis added). Examples are then supplied, such as Noah (and the Flood), Moses (on Mount Sinai), the twelve spies (who spied on Canaan), David (and Goliath), Elijah (in the wilderness), the city of Nineveh (after Jonah preached to them), Jesus (in the wilderness), and the disciples (after the resurrection). The author’s conclusion is unmistakable: God’s preferred if not singular method of evoking life-change in His people is a 40-day program. And he adds this unqualified guarantee: “The next 40 days will transform your life” (p. 10).
But, in claiming this, Warren has confused the descriptive with the prescriptive. Never are believers commanded to follow any 40-day program. To be fair, the number 40 does seem to have some significance in Scripture, but it is never presented as a model we must follow.
I should also suggest Phil Johnson's blog PyroManiac as a good resource on PDL criticism. See his posts on the Fad-Driven Church. I would also love to see Phil interact with Mormon missionaries when they come knocking on his door.
Chris,
Me and my wife Becky are studying Galatians for our Hope Group this fall. Reading Chapters 1 and 2 of Galatians, it pretty easy to discern the false teaching the Judizers are persuading the Galatians to believe in. Adding laws and customs and traditions to the Gospel. Saying what Apostle Paul said wasn't enough.
Our generation is no different, looking at your table. The mormons are the modern day Judizers sucking nominal Christians into their church. (A 7-Eleven Slurpee noise would help.) Southern Baptist gives more of its nominal members to the Mormons Church than any other denomination.
Thanks Chris,
I'm sorry to say that I saw a lot of copies of the PDC translated into Swedish in Sweden. I'm told the congregations found him easy to understand, but I don't know if PDC will renew the "purposes" that drive us as Christians and help us to be more biblically counter-cultural in our witness to others.
dlw
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